Legislature(1997 - 1998)

04/03/1998 03:00 PM House FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
HOUSE BILL NO. 364                                                             
                                                                               
"An Act requiring nonresident hunters to be accompanied                        
when hunting moose; and providing for an effective                             
date."                                                                         
                                                                               
REPERSENTATIVE IVAN IVAN spoke in support of HB 364.  He                       
noted that are two reasons why HB 364 was introduced.  The                     
first reason addresses conservation and would require                          
nonresident hunters to take a moose hunting orientation                        
course offered by the Department of Fish and Game.  There is                   
concern that it is difficult for nonresidents to determine                     
whether or not a moose is legal.  The present moose antler                     
restriction for nonresident hunters is a minimum of 50                         
inches and spike/fork regulations are in effect in most game                   
management units.  The requirement for an orientation course                   
would result in less sub-legal moose being killed and                          
wasted.                                                                        
                                                                               
An additional concern for the legislation would be to reduce                   
the waste of moose meat.  The purpose of the transporter                       
requirement is to reduce waste of moose meat by those who                      
may not have the knowledge or capability, for whatever                         
reason, to care for the meat in the field.  The transporters                   
would be held responsible for spoilage or wanton waste if                      
they fail to check on their clients and take moose meat out                    
of the field before waste or spoilage can occur.  The                          
transporters currently have no responsibility for the                          
actions of their clients.  He provided members with                            
Amendment 1 (copy on file).                                                    
                                                                               
TOM WRIGHT, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE IVAN reviewed Amendment 1.                   
He observed that the Department of Public Safety requested                     
the first part of the amendment.  The amendment would delete                   
the three-day requirement.  Transporters would be required                     
to keep a written record, which they already have to file                      
with the Department of Commerce and Economic Development,                      
with them when they make a transport of hunters or meat in                     
or out of the field.  The Department of Public Safety feels                    
that this would allow them to keep better track of hunters                     
and meat.  The three-day requirement was deleted because the                   
Department felt it was not an enforceable statute.                             
                                                                               
(Tape Change, HFC 98 -89, Side 1)                                              
                                                                               
KEN TAYLOR, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF WILDLIFE                              
CONSERVATION, DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME reviewed Amendment                   
1.  He observed that a moose hunting orientation course                        
could be sent through the mail, to hunters who apply by                        
mail, for licenses and tags.  A substantial number of                          
hunters apply for their licenses and tags through the mail.                    
The Department's fiscal note includes funding for a kiosk at                   
the Anchorage airport.  He noted that the Department would                     
like the legislation to be amended to delay the effective                      
date to July 1, 1999.                                                          
                                                                               
Co-Chair Hanley asked if it is constitutional for a non-                       
resident to have to take a course that a resident doesn't                      
have to take.  Mr. Taylor could not answer.  In response to                    
a question by Co-Chair Hanley, Mr. Taylor explained that                       
every non-resident that applies by mail, would receive a                       
video of the course.  The video would cost $10 dollars.  An                    
affidavit affirming that they have watched the course would                    
be signed on their non-resident moose tag.  The video would                    
help hunters identify legal moose and take care of meat.                       
                                                                               
Co-Chair Hanley expressed concern that there might be                          
constitutional concerns.  Co-Chair Therriault suggested that                   
"or" be changed to "and".  Mr. Wright agreed.  Co-Chair                        
Hanley recommended that the legislation state that a                           
"nonresident may not obtain a moose tag unless the                             
nonresident signs a statement affirming they have either                       
completed a moose hunting course offered by the Department                     
or will be accompanied."  Mr. Taylor noted that the                            
Department's concern was that two mailings would be required                   
because hunters would not receive their tag until after they                   
had completed the course.  The Department wants to ship the                    
tag, license and videotape at on time.  Co-Chair Hanley                        
emphasized that the legislation seems to say that persons                      
that apply by mail would not have to take the course.  The                     
intent is not that those that apply by mail would not have                     
to take the course.  Co-Chair Therriault added that the only                   
tags that can be received by mail would come from the                          
Department.                                                                    
                                                                               
Representative Grussendorf did not think that there would be                   
a constitutional problem.  He observed that hunting is a                       
privilege.                                                                     
                                                                               
Mr. Taylor explained that $5 thousand dollars in the                           
Department's fiscal note would go toward airport leasing.                      
The kiosk would be approximately $20 thousand dollars.                         
Twenty-six hundred dollars is included for postage.  In FY                     
99, would be contractual to put the video footage together.                    
                                                                               
Representative Davies suggested that the first "obtain" be                     
changed to "use" on page 1, line 22 of Amendment 1.                            
Everything from the second obtain would be deleted through                     
to the word "nonresident".  The recommended language would                     
provide that the tag could be received but could not be used                   
unless they had signed a statement.  Mr. Taylor spoke in                       
support of the suggested language.                                             
                                                                               
Representative Foster noted the difficulty of discerning                       
moose size.  Mr. Taylor clarified that a one-year residence                    
would be required.  Representative Foster observed that some                   
residents would benefit from the course.  He expressed                         
concern that transporters would be burdened by Amendment 1.                    
                                                                               
Mr. Wright explained that transporters would only be                           
required to carry records that currently must be submitted                     
on an annual basis.  He emphasized that the information                        
would assist the Department of Public Safety in their                          
enforcement efforts.  Representative Foster expressed                          
concern that transporters would have more paper work                           
requirements.                                                                  
                                                                               
TED KRIEG, NATURAL RESOURCE DEPARTMENT, BRISTOL BAY NATIVE                     
ASSOCIATION, DILLINGHAM spoke in support of the legislation.                   
He noted that wanton waste has been a concern of the                           
Association.  He spoke against allowing course certification                   
through video participation.  He maintained that viewing a                     
video is not enough.  He spoke in support of requiring                         
transporters to check with hunters every three days.  He                       
stressed that some hunters only want the horns.  He asserted                   
that meat should be taken care of, so that it can be used by                   
locals.  He expressed concern that moose are being left and                    
the meat wasted because they are not legal size.  The course                   
should provide the ability to identify a legal moose, make                     
sure that meat will not be wasted and assure that hunters                      
realize the amount of meat that is involved.  He asserted                      
that transporters must be responsible for the hunters they                     
take out.                                                                      
                                                                               
Representative Foster questioned the premise that hunters                      
should be responsible for the actions of another person.                       
Mr. Krieg reiterated that transporters should be                               
responsible.  Representative Foster observed that weather                      
could prevent transporters from contacting hunters within                      
the suggested three-day period.  He stressed that pilot's                      
job is to fly not to police.  Co-Chair Therriault noted that                   
the legislation currently requires that the transporter                        
check on hunters every three days.  Representative Foster                      
questioned what would happen if the hunter does not pay the                    
transporter to come back in three days.  Representative                        
Grussendorf suggested that hunters would have to pay for                       
checks.  Representative Foster acknowledged the intent, but                    
expressed concern with making transporters responsible for a                   
third party.                                                                   
                                                                               
VIRGIL UMPENOUR, BOARD OF FISHERIES, FAIRBANKS spoke in                        
support of HB 364.  He noted that he is a registered hunting                   
guide and operates a meat and fish processing plant in                         
Fairbanks.  He stressed that the primary issue is the direct                   
competition with subsistence use of non-regulated                              
nonresident hunters.  He felt hunters should be required to                    
be physically present at the course.  He observed problems                     
with sub-legal moose being shot and left in the field and                      
meat being wasted due to a lack of transportation.  He                         
observed that the number of nonresident moose hunters in                       
unit 21D increased by 300 percent in 1995-1996.  As much as                    
30 percent of the moose are taken by nonresidents.  He                         
maintained that the majority of the meat is spoiled.                           
                                                                               
In response to a question by Representative Davies, Mr.                        
Umpenour observed that guides are responsible to get the                       
meat out in good condition.  He emphasized that transporters                   
already have to keep a hunt record.  The legislation would                     
require that the record be kept with them when they are                        
transporting hunters or meat.  Transporters would be                           
required to report violations of their clients in the same                     
manner as a guide.                                                             
                                                                               
MICHELLE SPARCK, RESOURCE SPECIALIST, ASSOCIATION OF VILLAGE                   
COUNCIL PRESIDENTS, BETHEL spoke in support of the                             
legislation.  She emphasized that moose meat is being                          
wasted.  One moose is equivalent to five caribou.  She                         
stressed the importance of the meat to feed local residents.                   
Meat keeps longer when it is attached to the bone, but                         
hunters cut it away to reduce weight.  She maintained that a                   
video is not sufficient preparation for hunters.  She spoke                    
in support of the legislation's original language.                             
                                                                               
HERMAN MORGAN, CITY MANAGER, ANIAK spoke in support of HB
364.  He noted that he is a subsistence hunter.  He asserted                   
that moose meat is being left to rot and waste.  He                            
maintained that the moose that locals depend on are being                      
endangered.  A lot of meat is going to waste that could feed                   
locals during the winter.  He maintained that it is an                         
insult to the dignity of the subsistence life style.  He                       
stressed that a video can not take the place of an                             
experienced guide.  He asserted that no one is taken                           
responsibility for all of the rotting meat.                                    
                                                                               
GILBERT HUNTINGTON, GALENA spoke in support of HB 364.  He                     
noted that he is a registered guide and a subsistence                          
hunter.  He spoke in support of the original language of HB
364.  He expressed concern that moose meat is being wasted.                    
He asserted that transporters bring hunters in without                         
guides.  He emphasized that guides look after the resource.                    
He stressed that anyone can sign his or her name to an                         
affidavit.                                                                     
                                                                               
ROD ARNO, PRESIDENT, ALASKA OUTDOOR COUNCIL spoke in support                   
of HB 364.  He stressed that nonresident hunters are                           
perceived as trophy hunters that allow meat to spoil.  He                      
noted that wanton waste is a crime punishable by one to five                   
in jails.  He maintained that it is an enforcement issue                       
problem.  He stated that it would be advantages to increase                    
hunters' skill levels and spell out the client transporter                     
obligation and relationship.  He cautioned that too large of                   
a hurdle not be created to nonresident hunters.  He observed                   
that in 1997 there were approximately 14,000 nonresident                       
hunters.  Nonresident hunters brought in $6.5 million                          
dollars in 1997, or $462 dollars per hunter in licenses and                    
fees.  Federal aid based on the license sales of nonresident                   
hunters was $8.5 million dollars in 1997.  Nonresident                         
hunters are responsible for more than 90 percent of the                        
Division of Wildlife Conservation's' budget.  He stated that                   
the perception of nonresidents would benefit from the care                     
of meat.  He spoke against Amendment 1.  He stated that the                    
amendment would take the guts out of the legislation.                          
Section 1 of CSHB 364 (RES) would make transporters                            
responsible for wasted meat.  He suggested that Section 1                      
could be amended by removing language-requiring transporters                   
to check on clients every three days.  The remaining                           
language would read, " In order to maximize the use of game                    
taken by clients of transporters, transport meat of game                       
taken by the clients out of the field before waste or                          
spoilage can occur."  He maintained that the                                   
transporter/client relationship needs to be clear.  He                         
emphasized that the transporters advertise for nonresident                     
for drop off hunts.  Transporters decide where nonresidents                    
will hunt.  He maintained that they need to be held                            
responsible for wanton waste.  He stressed that transporters                   
should follow the same procedures as guides to make sure                       
that there are not too many clients in the field to be                         
adequately served.  If transporters report spoiled meat the                    
responsibility would be on the client.  If meat is spoiled                     
because a transporter can not cover all of his clients                         
before spoilage occurs they should be partially responsible.                   
                                                                               
HB 364 was HELD in Committee for further consideration.                        

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